From my 10 Commandments post from a while ago I got a comment that was disagreeing. Below I am going to reply to that comment and hopefully clear up my position. The comment is in line in marked segments. I believe that Shane, the author of the quote, and myself approach scripture from different perspectives. I hold a dispensational view, and I’m not getting the impression that he uses the same method of scriptural interpretation. I don’t think that Shane and I will see eye to eye on this, but he offered genuine questions and didn’t do it in a nasty way, so I’m honored to give him my best, short replies.

Paul said the Law is holy and just and good. (does [sic] he contradict himself?) Yeshua (Jesus) said if you love me keep my commandments.

First, Paul writes about the Law and its character due to it being perfect revelation from God to the Jews. The Law perfectly reveals man’s need for a relationship with a gracious God [Romans 3]. As Shane relays later in his comment you cannot separate the Ten Commandments from the whole law. I wrote this because many Christians try to do this very thing but still want the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament to apply to believers. Later in the New Testament the 10 commandments are reiterated, but not as part of the 613 laws. These ten of the 613 are partially and firstly for an uninterrupted relationship with God and partially and secondly moral standards given to the children of Israel. Paul writes in Romans 7:4 that we are dead to the Law in Christ. Paul further writes in Romans 7:6 that instead of obeying the law we should abide in the Holy Spirit.

I assume that you are referring to Romans 7:12 where Paul writes, “So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good.,” when you refer to Paul’s saying that. You’ve pulled that out of context. Romans 7 talks about how the Law brings about something that the flesh wants to fight… but the flesh was crucified with Christ. The Holy Spirit trumps the law because instead of limited rules via lists we get the unlimited, imputed righteousness of Christ and the power to live out His righteousness.

You quote Matthew 5:17 where Christ says that he came to fulfill the law. Then, in the end of the book Christ does fulfill the law and when we accept Christ’s gift of salvation we are died, buried and resurrected with Him. We ascend into the heavenlies with Him (positionally, though conditionally, until death or the rapture we are still tied to these mortal coils in our condition) where we are hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3). We are one with the very one who fulfilled all of the laws. We no longer have to perform those laws because we are imbued with the His righteousness. Works are not part of the Christian Faith for salvation, but instead are part of our sanctification.

Sanctification is a process [Philippians 1:6] and consists of our working out the logical conclusions of our position in Christ and our identification with Christ on this earth. Logically if you’ve been indwelled with the Holy Spirit you will do good works – those works are planned by God [Ephesians 2:10].

1 John 5:3 says:
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 2:4-6 states:
Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
If commandments are not for “New Testament Saints” then either they are liars or His Word is. (insidently, you realize that all the disciples were Jews and so was the Messiah and they kept Jewish festivals after the cross (see Acts 2 and 20:16)) No covenant was ever made with Gentiles only “the house of Israel and Judah” (Jer 31:31), Gentiles are grafted into the same covenant (Romans 11) and become Abraham’s seed (Gal 3:29, Eph 3:6).

I never said that commandments were not for New Testament Saints, there are New Testament instructions, I did imply (and should have stated more clearly) that the 613 laws are not given to New Testament Saints. I would again site that a Christian, who is clearly said in scripture to be indwelled by the Holy Spirit, is capable of obeying God’s commandments… the question is what are those commandments? I don’t think that you can state that those are the 613 laws in the Old Testament. A believer now is completely unable to live up to some of the commands because the physical temple is destroyed. I wonder how you propose we deal with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph? None of them had the Law but all had relationships with God. Clearly none of them lived pure and spotless lives but clearly all of them had faith in God. They were saved by faith and the Law was not given to them. Is it possible for generations of Saints (people set aside unto God) to not be under the law given to the Jews? Yes.

As for the Jewishness of the disciples that has nothing to do with the Church, which is made up of Jews and Gentiles alike. Their application of those festivals was cultural and in no way intended to be normative for the Church. Acts is a book of transition between the Old Testament Saint and the New Testament Saint. Both saved by faith, one saved by Faith in God and the messiah who was to come, and one saved by faith in Christ, who was the Messiah. I support Sojourner Ministries [I redesigned their site, in fact], lead by Steven Ger who teaches about the Jewish Heart of Christianity. He meets as a member of a Messianic Jewish congregation on Friday nights because of his Jewish Heritage but at no time in the last 5 years that I have known him has he ever suggested that I meet on Friday night. The reason for this is that we are, in the Grace of Christ, allowed to celebrate our ‘sabbath’ any day of the week – even if it was on Wednesday night. The seasons and festivals were set aside as times to worship God – but they were in no way communicated to the New Testament where Paul writes in Colossians 2:16 that no one should judge others for their festivals or food choices. This commandment from Paul is because of Grace. If a person wants to live out parts of the Jewish tradition because they are Jewish (and possibly otherwise) but are not doing those things out of religious conviction but rather culture or tradition, that is fine.

Noah was not of Israel and even Abraham was not a of Israel, but Israel was of Abraham. The Jeremiah Passage does not say that Israel was the only one through whom covenants came.

The Church is not grafted into Israel in Romans 11… I don’t see your point here.

You referred to Colossians 2:14. Do you realize that the word for law (nomos) is never used in that chapter? The Greek word used means “certificate of debt”. In other words your penalty was nailed to the cross, not God’s eternal Law! Remember the charge placed over His head on the cross? That was done for you an I.

I’m going to refer you to Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, whom I have studied under at Tyndale Theological Seminary when he was a guest lecturer. Specifically I find he disagrees with you at least in this Q&A on Pants (strangely enough). The whole section is highly informative.

“elementary principles of the world” – It should be obvious, that this could never mean God’s Law! Are you saying that what God gave was elementary and of the world? Would you want to worship a God like that?

I never said that the elementary principles of the world were the law. Those are in reference to the flesh and its nastiness, sinfulness of mankind if you will.

If you think that it(Col 2) was the Law, then you are saying that God’s Law was evil and legalism. Would you want to worship that God? God did not give leglism [sic]. No one was ever saved by Law. Grace is an “Old Testament” teaching. It did not start in the New Testament but continued into it.

The law, which applied without heart or brain is legalism. Take for the example a German in World War Two who happened to be hosting a Jewish Refugee. When the SS comes to his door and asks, “Do you have any Jews here?” Does he lie to save a life, or tell the truth to comply with the ‘false witness’ statement, but be involved with murder? Which of those non-compliances of the law is better? Christ brings up similar examples to the Pharisees and Saducees in the gospels.

I never once stated that mankind was saved by the law, in fact you can see my other post about this here. Grace is a concept in scripture as early as Genesis 3. In fact, it could be argued that since God predestined believers that Grace is a characteristic of God like Love, Justice and Righteousness. Our definition of those words comes from Him, we don’t use those words to define Him.

Yeshua told those that He healed and the adulteress to go and sin no more.
You may ask why I am telling you all of this. It is very important to understand what you are teaching others because:
Sin is transgression of the Law

OK, but the Law was not set for those before Moses and Israel. Jacob/Israel did not have the Law, nor did Abraham or Noah. Adam had a very simple law: Don’t eat of the trees of the Knowledge of Good and Evil [Genesis 2:17]. I am not encouraging anyone to sin, but to instead abide in the Holy Spirit so that they may obey God and bear fruit. Romans 6 is clear about the benefits of Grace to believers so that they will stop focusing on the Law, but instead focus on Christ. Colossians 3 states that we should set our minds on things above where Christ is seated in the heavenlies. By having our minds focused on those things we will not be thinking of the Law, the desires of the Flesh (which is dead), or any list of things but instead we’ll be looking at life from God’s perspective, which is Holy, Righteous and Just.

Luke 17:2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Heaven and earth are still here, so all is not fulfilled. Many of the prophecies pertain to after the cross, so all is not fulfilled. Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) for isntance [sic] is a Holy Day not fulfilled. That will be fulfilled with His triumphant return!

I’m not sure what you are referring to in the Luke Passage… please clarify what you are after so that I can more properly respond to this in the comments section of this post. The Matthew passage I addressed above. As I don’t believe that you apply the same dispensational timeline I do I don’t think we’ll be able to simply resolve this issue until we can discuss hermeneutics, which was not in the scope of this post. I recommend that you check out the Sojourner Ministries site and the Ariel Ministries sites to gather information on Yom Kippur in a New Testament time frame. I strongly recommend you get, borrow or steal [not really on the stealing for obvious reasons, sorry, I couldn’t help myself. I love a good joke as much as the next guy. Get it? ‘Good’ Joke? Nevermind.] a copy of Arnold Fruchtenbaum’s book Israelology [Amazon.com link].

I hope your recieve this [sic] words with the love intended.
Shalom (peace)

I don’t take what you have written in a negative way, but instead looked at it as a challenge for me to dig deeper into the Scriptures and to know my Lord Jesus better through His word. I look forward to your reply. Peace to you as well.

Resting in Him,
Randy Peterman

Post Script: I used [sic] in some places, which is a way of indicating a copied typo or misspelling in quoted text. I’m not trying to mock Shane, wanting to indicate that I’m not trying to hack his text up and reflect upon his spelling. My mom corrected my spelling all of the time as I grew up. She’s probably spotted several mistakes in my grammar already 🙂