From my 10 Commandments post from a while ago I got a comment that was disagreeing. Below I am going to reply to that comment and hopefully clear up my position. The comment is in line in marked segments. I believe that Shane, the author of the quote, and myself approach scripture from different perspectives. I hold a dispensational view, and I’m not getting the impression that he uses the same method of scriptural interpretation. I don’t think that Shane and I will see eye to eye on this, but he offered genuine questions and didn’t do it in a nasty way, so I’m honored to give him my best, short replies.
Paul said the Law is holy and just and good. (does [sic] he contradict himself?) Yeshua (Jesus) said if you love me keep my commandments.
First, Paul writes about the Law and its character due to it being perfect revelation from God to the Jews. The Law perfectly reveals man’s need for a relationship with a gracious God [Romans 3]. As Shane relays later in his comment you cannot separate the Ten Commandments from the whole law. I wrote this because many Christians try to do this very thing but still want the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament to apply to believers. Later in the New Testament the 10 commandments are reiterated, but not as part of the 613 laws. These ten of the 613 are partially and firstly for an uninterrupted relationship with God and partially and secondly moral standards given to the children of Israel. Paul writes in Romans 7:4 that we are dead to the Law in Christ. Paul further writes in Romans 7:6 that instead of obeying the law we should abide in the Holy Spirit.
I assume that you are referring to Romans 7:12 where Paul writes, “So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good.,” when you refer to Paul’s saying that. You’ve pulled that out of context. Romans 7 talks about how the Law brings about something that the flesh wants to fight… but the flesh was crucified with Christ. The Holy Spirit trumps the law because instead of limited rules via lists we get the unlimited, imputed righteousness of Christ and the power to live out His righteousness.
You quote Matthew 5:17 where Christ says that he came to fulfill the law. Then, in the end of the book Christ does fulfill the law and when we accept Christ’s gift of salvation we are died, buried and resurrected with Him. We ascend into the heavenlies with Him (positionally, though conditionally, until death or the rapture we are still tied to these mortal coils in our condition) where we are hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3). We are one with the very one who fulfilled all of the laws. We no longer have to perform those laws because we are imbued with the His righteousness. Works are not part of the Christian Faith for salvation, but instead are part of our sanctification.
Sanctification is a process [Philippians 1:6] and consists of our working out the logical conclusions of our position in Christ and our identification with Christ on this earth. Logically if you’ve been indwelled with the Holy Spirit you will do good works – those works are planned by God [Ephesians 2:10].
1 John 5:3 says:
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
1 John 2:4-6 states:
Whoever says I know him but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
If commandments are not for New Testament Saints then either they are liars or His Word is. (insidently, you realize that all the disciples were Jews and so was the Messiah and they kept Jewish festivals after the cross (see Acts 2 and 20:16)) No covenant was ever made with Gentiles only the house of Israel and Judah (Jer 31:31), Gentiles are grafted into the same covenant (Romans 11) and become Abrahams seed (Gal 3:29, Eph 3:6).
I never said that commandments were not for New Testament Saints, there are New Testament instructions, I did imply (and should have stated more clearly) that the 613 laws are not given to New Testament Saints. I would again site that a Christian, who is clearly said in scripture to be indwelled by the Holy Spirit, is capable of obeying God’s commandments… the question is what are those commandments? I don’t think that you can state that those are the 613 laws in the Old Testament. A believer now is completely unable to live up to some of the commands because the physical temple is destroyed. I wonder how you propose we deal with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph? None of them had the Law but all had relationships with God. Clearly none of them lived pure and spotless lives but clearly all of them had faith in God. They were saved by faith and the Law was not given to them. Is it possible for generations of Saints (people set aside unto God) to not be under the law given to the Jews? Yes.
As for the Jewishness of the disciples that has nothing to do with the Church, which is made up of Jews and Gentiles alike. Their application of those festivals was cultural and in no way intended to be normative for the Church. Acts is a book of transition between the Old Testament Saint and the New Testament Saint. Both saved by faith, one saved by Faith in God and the messiah who was to come, and one saved by faith in Christ, who was the Messiah. I support Sojourner Ministries [I redesigned their site, in fact], lead by Steven Ger who teaches about the Jewish Heart of Christianity. He meets as a member of a Messianic Jewish congregation on Friday nights because of his Jewish Heritage but at no time in the last 5 years that I have known him has he ever suggested that I meet on Friday night. The reason for this is that we are, in the Grace of Christ, allowed to celebrate our ‘sabbath’ any day of the week – even if it was on Wednesday night. The seasons and festivals were set aside as times to worship God – but they were in no way communicated to the New Testament where Paul writes in Colossians 2:16 that no one should judge others for their festivals or food choices. This commandment from Paul is because of Grace. If a person wants to live out parts of the Jewish tradition because they are Jewish (and possibly otherwise) but are not doing those things out of religious conviction but rather culture or tradition, that is fine.
Noah was not of Israel and even Abraham was not a of Israel, but Israel was of Abraham. The Jeremiah Passage does not say that Israel was the only one through whom covenants came.
The Church is not grafted into Israel in Romans 11… I don’t see your point here.
You referred to Colossians 2:14. Do you realize that the word for law (nomos) is never used in that chapter? The Greek word used means certificate of debt. In other words your penalty was nailed to the cross, not Gods eternal Law! Remember the charge placed over His head on the cross? That was done for you an I.
I’m going to refer you to Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum, whom I have studied under at Tyndale Theological Seminary when he was a guest lecturer. Specifically I find he disagrees with you at least in this Q&A on Pants (strangely enough). The whole section is highly informative.
elementary principles of the world – It should be obvious, that this could never mean Gods Law! Are you saying that what God gave was elementary and of the world? Would you want to worship a God like that?
I never said that the elementary principles of the world were the law. Those are in reference to the flesh and its nastiness, sinfulness of mankind if you will.
If you think that it(Col 2) was the Law, then you are saying that Gods Law was evil and legalism. Would you want to worship that God? God did not give leglism [sic]. No one was ever saved by Law. Grace is an Old Testament teaching. It did not start in the New Testament but continued into it.
The law, which applied without heart or brain is legalism. Take for the example a German in World War Two who happened to be hosting a Jewish Refugee. When the SS comes to his door and asks, “Do you have any Jews here?” Does he lie to save a life, or tell the truth to comply with the ‘false witness’ statement, but be involved with murder? Which of those non-compliances of the law is better? Christ brings up similar examples to the Pharisees and Saducees in the gospels.
I never once stated that mankind was saved by the law, in fact you can see my other post about this here. Grace is a concept in scripture as early as Genesis 3. In fact, it could be argued that since God predestined believers that Grace is a characteristic of God like Love, Justice and Righteousness. Our definition of those words comes from Him, we don’t use those words to define Him.
Yeshua told those that He healed and the adulteress to go and sin no more.
You may ask why I am telling you all of this. It is very important to understand what you are teaching others because:
Sin is transgression of the Law
OK, but the Law was not set for those before Moses and Israel. Jacob/Israel did not have the Law, nor did Abraham or Noah. Adam had a very simple law: Don’t eat of the trees of the Knowledge of Good and Evil [Genesis 2:17]. I am not encouraging anyone to sin, but to instead abide in the Holy Spirit so that they may obey God and bear fruit. Romans 6 is clear about the benefits of Grace to believers so that they will stop focusing on the Law, but instead focus on Christ. Colossians 3 states that we should set our minds on things above where Christ is seated in the heavenlies. By having our minds focused on those things we will not be thinking of the Law, the desires of the Flesh (which is dead), or any list of things but instead we’ll be looking at life from God’s perspective, which is Holy, Righteous and Just.
Luke 17:2 It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin.
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Heaven and earth are still here, so all is not fulfilled. Many of the prophecies pertain to after the cross, so all is not fulfilled. Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) for isntance [sic] is a Holy Day not fulfilled. That will be fulfilled with His triumphant return!
I’m not sure what you are referring to in the Luke Passage… please clarify what you are after so that I can more properly respond to this in the comments section of this post. The Matthew passage I addressed above. As I don’t believe that you apply the same dispensational timeline I do I don’t think we’ll be able to simply resolve this issue until we can discuss hermeneutics, which was not in the scope of this post. I recommend that you check out the Sojourner Ministries site and the Ariel Ministries sites to gather information on Yom Kippur in a New Testament time frame. I strongly recommend you get, borrow or steal [not really on the stealing for obvious reasons, sorry, I couldn’t help myself. I love a good joke as much as the next guy. Get it? ‘Good’ Joke? Nevermind.] a copy of Arnold Fruchtenbaum’s book Israelology [Amazon.com link].
I hope your recieve this [sic] words with the love intended.
Shalom (peace)
I don’t take what you have written in a negative way, but instead looked at it as a challenge for me to dig deeper into the Scriptures and to know my Lord Jesus better through His word. I look forward to your reply. Peace to you as well.
Resting in Him,
Randy Peterman
Post Script: I used [sic] in some places, which is a way of indicating a copied typo or misspelling in quoted text. I’m not trying to mock Shane, wanting to indicate that I’m not trying to hack his text up and reflect upon his spelling. My mom corrected my spelling all of the time as I grew up. She’s probably spotted several mistakes in my grammar already 🙂
For the last 9 years I have been a Sevent Day Adventist with my husband, who is a generation Adventist. In Dec. I was baptized into the Holy Spirit, and a world of new revelations have developed. It started in the book of Galations, with the Bondwoman and the Freewoman, God brought me to tears when I realized I was the Bondwoman. As I have shared my new found revelation with my husband, he rebukes me, and is putting me before our Pastors, etc. God is leading me, and I have been studying on the Sabbath a lot! I understand scripture and love what Christ did for us on the cross. I only desire my husband to see this freedom, even if the rest of ‘our world’ does not. I am defenately standing alone right now for the Word of God, and I know he will set his captives free. In the meantime, I have been persecuted and nailed to the cross, it feels literally. I know all I need to do is show love for my husband and fellow friends in Christ, but I need God to teach me!!! Please pray and send any advice you might have here. I enjoyed what all you said here, and the Holy Spirit has led me to many of these same texts. I could swear the sermon today was aimed at me as the Pastor warned of ‘other spirits’ leading us away from what Gods word and commandments clearly state! I talked with the Pastor Thurs. night, and the sermon today seemed to hit some highlights, using texts here and there, not looking at the whole chapters. I fear for my fellow brothers and sisters, I must pray for God to lead me where ever He sees fit. His will be done!!!
Thank you for these studies , Michelle D.
hi there, as i have mentioned above, i am a biblical student (MTH)and i am planning to write a thesis on the tittle “a comparative study of old testament ten commanment and the new testament salvation”. if you have any suggesion regarding (1)statement of problem(2)Elaboration of the Problem and Survey of Scholarships(3)Purpose Statement (4)Significance of the Research(5)Methodology (6)Scope and Limitations etc, i will be very glad, waiting for your reply, God bless you
Firstly, Wow, to Michelle Detweiler …. that is an AWESOME testimony, and I will pray for a continued “Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, and what He did for us at the cross!” (Eph 1 & 2)
Secondly, may I take the time to post Scriptures that I have put together, regarding “what happened to the LAW at the Cross” … for a one-stop easy reference for Believers to have on hand.
Here we go:
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What happened to the Law at the Cross of Christ?
Christ abolished the Law
Ephesians 2:14-15 — For He Himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in His flesh the law with its commands and regulations (NIV)
— having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances (NKJV)
Christ is the end of the Law
Romans 10:4 — Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes (NIV)
The Law is wiped out
Colossians 2:14 — He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us an that stood opposed to us; He took it away, nailing it to the cross (NIV)
— having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (NKJV)
Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law and gave us that righteousness
Romans 8:3 — He condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met IN US, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit (NIV)
The Old Covenant is removed and set aside by Christ
Romans 10:9 — Then He said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second (NIV)
— He takes away the first that He may establish the second (NKJV)
The Law was set aside and annulled
Hebrews 7:18 — The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless, for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God (NIV)
— there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect (NKJV)
The New Covenant is better than the Old Covenant
Hebrews 7:22 — Because of the oath of (Melchizedek) Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant (NIV)
The New Covenant is better and more superior to the Old Covenant, and has replaced the Old Covenant and made the Old Covenant obsolete
Hebrews 8:6 — But the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which He is mediator is superior to the old one, and it is founded on better promises. For it there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another … By calling this covenant “new”, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear (NIV & NKJV)
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Since the Law is fulfilled in Christ and done away with,
Believers are therefore free from the Law?
Galatians 2:19 — I died to the law so that I might live for God (NIV)
Galatians 3:23 — Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law (NIV)
Galatians 4:9 — But now that you know God — or rather are known by God — how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? (NIV)
Galatians 5:18 — But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law (NIV & NKJV)
Romans 6:6-18 — For we know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin — because anyone who has died has been freed from sin … For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace (NIV)
— Sin will not rule over you, because you are not under law (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
Romans 7:4 — So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God (NIV)
— Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law (NKJV)
Romans 7:6 — But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code (NIV)
— But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (NKJV)
Romans 8:4-9 — And so He condemned sin in sinful man (by sending Him to the cross) in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit (NIV)
1 Timothy 1:8-9 — We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but the lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious (NIV)
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Is the Law therefore bad?
Romans 7:5, 7-8 — For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies … What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead … So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful (NIV)
Romans 7:14-18 — We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin … And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in my sinful nature (NIV)
Romans 8:4-9 — For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering (NIV)
The above Scriptures teach that the Law is good and holy, however, it is weak and powerless to accomplish its righteous goal in sinful flesh.
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If Paul states that the Law is actually holy or good,
is it therefore beneficial for Believers to still observe some parts of the Law in order to make sure we are living Holy lives for God?
Galatians 3:10 — All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” (NIV)
Galatians 4:9 — But now that you know God — or rather are known by God — how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? (NIV)
Galatians 2:21 — … for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing! (NIV)
Colossians 2:16-19 — Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the thing that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility … disqualify you for the prize. Such a person … has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow … Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in (actually) restraining sensual indulgence (NIV)
Romans 4:15 — because law brings wrath (NIV)
Galatians 4:21, 30-31 — Tell me you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? … “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” (NIV)
Galatians 5:1-4 — It is for freedom that Christ has set us free … do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery … if you let yourselves be circumcised (or let yourself be compelled to observe the Sabbath or refrain from pork, etc) Christ will be of no value to you at all … You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace (NIV)
Special Note regarding Colossians 2:16-19
The Laws and Holy Days which God stated were to be remembered or “kept” forever
(ie: Exodus 12:24, Exodus 31:17, Deut. 28:46, Leviticus 24:1-9, and the Ten Commandments as seen in Exodus 20) ARE FULLY met and kept in Christ Jesus, for Jesus IS our Sabbath, Jesus IS our Jubilee, Jesus IS our Passover, and Jesus IS our Sabbath, etc. Therefore, we ARE observing and keeping all the Law, through the Spirit, when we are Born-Again INTO Christ Jesus (Hebrews 4:9-10).
He IS the fulfillment of the entire Law, and that entire Law is now FULLY met in us (Romans 8:3) because we are IN Christ Jesus and the Holy Days, and other Laws, are NOT to be kept in the flesh.
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What then was the purpose of the Law?
Galatians 3:23 — Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law (NIV)
— Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ … But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor (NKJV) {The purpose of the Law, therefore, was to show us our sinfulness and lead us to Christ}
Romans 3:20 — Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin (NIV)
Romans 7:7-13 — What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “Do not covet” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead … But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful (NIV) {The Law, therefore, was to teach us what sin actually is}
The Law was simply a foreshadowing of Christ; True righteousness is found in Christ
Colossians 2:16-19 — Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Mon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ (NIV) {This Scripture shows us that the Law’s Festivals and Holy Days which were a commandment to keep, were just a foretelling of the true “Sabbath”, “Day of Atonement”, “Pentecost”, “Passover” or even “Jubiliee” — all of which are met/kept/found in Christ, or which actually and literally ARE Christ.}
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What is the Actual Commandment for the
New Covenant Believer?
John 13:34 — A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another (NIV)
John 15:12 — This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you (NKJV)
John 15:17 — This is My command: Love each other (NIV)
1 John 3:23 — And this is His command: to believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as He commanded us (NIV)
Galatians 5:14 — The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” (NIV)
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Conclusion
— The Apostle Paul was astonished by the Galatians who were turning from grace and freedom, back to the Law (Galatians 1:6)
— Paul was persecuted by the Jews for preaching freedom from the Law (Galatians 1:10).
— Those who traveled with Paul were not compelled to obey any parts of the Law or its rules or regulations (Galatians 2:3)
— Paul continued to preach to Jewish Believers that all are now free from the rules of the Law (Galatians 2:5)
— Paul opposed Peter “to his face” because Peter was intimidated by Jewish Believers to be separate from Gentiles and keep jewish law and traditions (Galatians 2:11-14) which Paul says is “contrary” and “not in line with the Truth of the Gospel” (Galatians 2:14)
— Paul goes on to say that Gentiles should not be compelled to follow Jewish customs (Galatians 2:14-16)
— Paul states if any righteousness could be attained through observing any part of the law, then Christ died in vain (Galatians 2:21)
— Paul calls obeying any part of the Law as departing from Christ (Galatians 3:1-3)
— Paul says “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law (Galatians 3:13)
— Paul calls the Law “weak and miserable principles” which will enslave us if we turn back to following them (Galatians 4:11)
— Paul teaches that returning to the Law after being born again, means enslaving yourself to the entire Old Law and Covenant (Galatians 4:8-11, 21-30)
— Paul then states that it was for Freedom that Christ set us free, and that we should not go back to observing or feeling compelled to observe the Law any longer (Galatians 5:1-4)
— Again, Paul reminds us that he was persecuted for preaching freedom from the Law (Galatians 5:11) and says that whoever preaches that Believers should be observing any part of the Law is actually throwing Believers into confusion (Galatians 5:7-10), that this teaching isn’t from Christ, and that teaching that we still need to observe any part of the Law is actually “keeping” us from the Truth (Galatians 5:8)
Paul concludes his letter to the Galatian Gentile church with the statement that:
Circumcision or un-circumcision doesn’t mean a thing.
Therefore, keeping a Sabbath or not keeping a Sabbath does not mean a thing or
eating pork or not eating pork does not mean a thing.
All that matters is “a new creation” (Galatians 6:15)
“Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule” (Galatians 6:16).
Amen.