I’ve been studying lately about the doctrine that is by some that you can lose your salvation. Catholics don’t teach this because they teach that you never know if/when you’re saved, and almost everyone must at least do some time in purgatory. However, the Foursquare church, the Nazarene church and others teach that you can lose your salvation. However, I’ve got several critical questions that I’d like answered for me (you may post a comment here or send me an email).
If at the point of salvation I have
- Died (Romans 6:2-6)
- Been buried (Romans 6:4)
- Been resurrected (Romans 6:5)
- Been ascended (Colossians 3:1)
- Been hidden in Christ (Colossians 3:3)
- Been seated with Christ (Colossians 3:1,3)
How does all of that get done? By God’s grace. And can you please show me the place in scripture where any of that is contingent on my works? And can you show me the place where some of my sins are not covered by Christ’s atoning work? The two denominations I listed above believe you can regain the salvation you’ve lost. If that is the case then why does Hebrews 6:4-6 say you cannot regain your salvation if it is lost (assuming it is possible to lose your salvation, because the Greek makes it clear it is a hyopthetical question, I contend it is not). Therefore a second salvation is not possible.
If a person can lose their salvation then they must
- Be unhidden in Christ
- Unseated with Christ
- Descend from the heavenlies
- Be reburied
- Undie
- The old man must resurrect into life (or death, depending on how you want to look at it.)
Paul never write about those as an option.
On top of that Ephesians 2:5 says, “.. by grace you were saved…” which the Greek text has in the perfect tense – as in its a done deal.
I’m not losing my salvation.
Amen! We CANNOT lose our salvation. Praise the Lord!
I have believed a long time in the wonderful full salvation of Jesus attoning Blood, and nothing or anything or anyone can take me from God. God manifest in the flesh through His Son Jesus Christ, one person, with a divine nature totally and human totally. I have come across how Nazarenes believe, and it is terribly sad, because they do believe in God and Christ and the Holy Spirit, but they think they are stronger then God to think they can take themselves out of His hands. Wow that is so sad so wrong. If that was possible the God would not be God.
That sure is reassuring that we can not lose our salvation. Romans 8:38-39: For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
It is so interesting I came across this board..I happen to be a Nazarene. 😉
Marie says that it is sad we believe we are stronger than God.
My response is we do not believe we are stronger than God… we only believe that God gives us a choice…one that carries into the time of our salvation. To daily love and serve and accept His gift. Or to choose to walk away from God and reject Him. The Bible clearly says that those rejecting God will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Yes, I am secure in who I am in Christ. And no I don’t wake up every morning scared I will lose my salvation that day. I choose to follow God in holiness daily as He calls us. It’s not about “being good”. It’s about a choice I make daily of whether or not I will love and commit to God.
I believe with my whole heart that God has a place for me, that God will hold up His end of the bargain. But because God loves you and I enough…He allows us the choice. If we were to break our end of the bargain, God allows us to walk away bc He will not force us where we do not want to be.
It’s the choice…always the choice… Just as a spouse breaks their end of a vow and walks away and divorces the other…so do we when we reject the One who saved us and whom we were living in.
God is still God.
Powerful, loving, righteous and just.
Christi,
The problem with your assertion about choice is that you describe a choice that Paul does not describe: a choice to undo what God has done in the past. God paid for the sins of the future with what Christ did in the past. I don’t live out my holiness, I live in Christ’s holiness, which was ascribed to me as clearly stated in Ephesians chapter 1 (along with many other things).
–Randy;
The theology of the Church of the Nazarene comes from the Wesleyan-Arminian tradition, and its not just the Nazarenes that hold this view about Free Will and Salvation. The Free Methodist Church as well as other “Wesleyan” based denominations do also. I can understand the argument about living in “Christ’s Holiness”. With that being said however, is that to say that because God paid for the sins of the future that I can live a deliberately sinful life and still be saved? — Yes, Christ paid for the sins of the future, but we need to repent and then make the choice to live a Holy life; a life in line with God’s commandments and away from sin before we are truly Saved.
We are also not called to “live in Christ’s Holiness”.
The Good Book says in Leviticus 20:7-8 (New International Version)
7 ” ‘Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the LORD your God. 8 Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy.
We are called to live a life of Holiness for ourselves (verse 7) with and by the help and grace of God (verse 8).
I am not trying to argue with anyone. It was just something I thought of when reading along and I am vastly and immensely curious.
I would say no one can lose their salvation; meaning they cant wake up and say, “where dit it go?”.
People can however, walk away from their salvation and in so doing cut themselves off from Grace. To say otherwise is to deny free will, and consequently – deny Gods sovereignty. Because only a God with absolute sovereignty, can create a being that has absolute free will to choose or deny his Creator.
Kyle – can you give some scriptural references to back that up? Furthermore, can you please define free will? God doesn’t have a free will, and neither does mankind to my understanding.
Gal.5:4
Romans 3:25
Just to name 2 but there are many,many others
@Deanie – regarding Galatians 5:4 you’re taking the passage out of context – none of the verses around that allow us to take severed or fallen in a context of loss, but as having been put out of operation. Its the difference between getting in an argument verses divorce. This is not a divorce, it is the believer’s position in Christ (Col. 3) not being reflected by their earthly condition.
I fail to see how Romans 3:25 says that a believer an lose their salvation.
Romans 3:25 teaches that He forgives us from our “past sins”.Yes the forgiveness is there for any future sins we might commit,however,we must ask for forgiveness before we are forgiven.
Gal.5:4.The last part of that verse”ye are fallen from Grace”.You can’t fall off a chair unless you were on it.A person cannot backslide unless they were saved first.
@Deanie, if Romans 3:25 were the only verse to discuss forgiveness I’d suggest you have something, except that Paul wrote much more on the subject, including Ephesians 1:7, which goes into further detail and tells us that the believer possesses the forgiveness of sins [it uses the genitive case]. Romans 3:25 uses the unique word (at least unique in the New Testament) proginomai, which definitely states that the sins of the past were forgiven. However, Paul doesn’t stop there and in Romans 5:9, as Paul continues his argument from the indictment in Romans 1-3, we find that Paul writes that we have been made justified (once and going forward, as the aorist tense indicates), which means that we don’t need to worry about losing our salvation.
Rather than split time on two passages, lets come back to Galatians 5 so that we maintain focus.
Sir I mostly agree with you,however,all through the NT the Lord,time after time,repeatedly excortes Christians to “remain In Him”.He also repeatedly warns about “falling from Grace.”We do have security “In Him”.But our security will not be complete untill we are with Him In Heaven.
The verses I gave doesn’t even scratch the surface of the ones that are In the Bible.There are oh so many more.
@Deanie, I’m not sure I understand what you mean, or you don’t understand what I mean. It seems that you have decided not to continue discussing this, but if you want to keep going, please do so. I would clarify though: I am a dispensationalist, so I don’t believe you can quote the Old Testament, the Gospels, and the New Testament indiscriminately.
It really all started clear back when Adam & Eve disobeyed God In the garden of Eden.They were given a choice and made the wrong one.Through the entire Bible people were given a choice,God or the world.Jesus Is Eternal Life.By obeying Him we have the makings/beginnings of Eternal life preparing us for the completion of It.As long as we live In this world we still have temtation to fight,or In other words,satan.Were not saved today,lost tomorrow,It’s a prosess.Untill we see Christ,we are faced with choices to make,are we going to choose Christ or the world?
I do not think that anyone or anything can take my salvation away from me. I would have to walk away from the Lord and never come back! I am convinced that the sacrifice Jesus paid on the cross was enough for my sins, both past and future. But, I realize that I am responsible for the life that I chose to live now. IF I WANT MY SALVATION, I will live like I do. I will turn from my wicked ways and follow His ways. I will learn how to live the way that God wants me to. God’s sheep know His voice; they will FOLLOW HIM.
@BJ, I disagree completely. I would love to hear/see/read you exposit Romans chapter 4 where salvation is by faith, and faith leads to God declaring us righteous no matter what sins we commit later (murder, adultery, lying, etc).